My van is 22 years old. And 255k miles. Based upon what is available more recently, what would be a worthy replacement?

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
10/08/2019 at 16:06 • Filed to: None

I’m going for 3ook on it, but at some point, keeping it on the road is going to become impractical.

DISCUSSION (78)

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:12

They don’t make minivans like that anymore, so you are either looking at a full-sized van, or some 3-row SUV.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:15

Basically you are looking at your choice of crossover or body on frame SUV. If you are looking for an AWD van that tows, thats basically the Sienna which can tow 3500 lbs. Not a ton of wiggle room on that trailer, but enough. (im guessing about 2500 lbs loaded?)

4kc > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:16

Kinja'd!!!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:16

eh... the mercs are good vans (vito,sprinter)

avoid these things regardless of what badge they slapped on it

Kinja'd!!!

they break...in new and interesting ways...all the fucking time

and thats about all the helpful knowledge i have

unless you plan to buy a 90s voyager.... wonderful van that

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:16

A sprinter van?

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:17

The correct answer is “ nothing, ” or another M-body.

I know long_voyager will probably fight me on this, but these are the greatest vans ever made.

As far as 300k, that’s easy. My folks sold their ‘ 91 Safari around 1998 with ~240k miles to their mechanic. At 305k miles he sold it to a guy at his church. By 2001 it had 350k miles and the owner then shipped it down to Guatemala where is parents worked as missionaries and they needed a new church bus. We got semi-regular updates for years after that the van was still going strong. I like to think that it’s still down there hauling kids to Sunday School. And in all that time the only major issue it had was a faulty tranmission wiring harness connector that was covered under warranty.

Dakotahound > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:18

I wish that my 1994 Safari was still on the road. It rusted out from salt after 150,000 miles, but the engine was still strong. I really liked the way that you could totally remove the seats. As has been mentioned, they don’t make anything like that anymore - we looked.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:19

AWD Toyota Sienna? Maybe? The Safari has a cult following for a reason, they really don’t have a replacement.

ranwhenparked > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:23

The NV200 has a surprisingly decent tow capacity for its size.

EDIT: never mind, that's only overseas. NA market ones are rated at 0 lbs, for some reason.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Snuze: Needs another Swede
10/08/2019 at 16:29

You won’t get a fight from me on this. The Astro is an amazing van to which there is no replacement.

If you’d have said best minivan, then you’d have a fight.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:31

The easy answer, nothing.

Just keep running her and fixing things as they break, you should easily get her over 500k for less than buying something else will cost.

There’s a good reason I keep my old van on the road despite buying the new one, they don’t make anything that can replace my old van.

Michael > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:33

https://www.motor1.com/news/366801/toyota-tj-cruiser-production-rumor/

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:35

Nothing, which is why I’m still driving my 2003 Odyssey on its second engine and second transmission.

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:40

A new, low options, crew cab pickup. You can get them for ~$30k with the smaller engine. Even with low options by modern standards, it will still be super nice compared to the old van. Plenty of space inside & in the bed for storage. Probably be cheaper to run due to better fuel economy as well.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 16:45

I’m guessing with the kids grown, you don’t have a lot of passengers in the van anymore. I’d consider a regular cab short bed F-150. The ITA97 special, actually. Why not a Silverado? Well, have you seen the way they look now?????

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw
10/08/2019 at 17:02

I know. Probably something V8-powered from the mid-2000s.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch
10/08/2019 at 17:03

Don’t need AWD. And I don’t think I’d settle for 3500 lbs because wiggle room, as you’ve put it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > 4kc
10/08/2019 at 17:03

LOLOLOLOLOL

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
10/08/2019 at 17:05

they break...in new and interesting ways...all the fucking time

My personal quest for c omity would prevent me from expressing that as effectively as you just have.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
10/08/2019 at 17:06

All I can think about is mechanics when I think of that idea.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
10/08/2019 at 17:07

But transaxles made of glass...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Snuze: Needs another Swede
10/08/2019 at 17:08

The story of my fan is almost that good. But not quite. And “nothing” is what I’m concluding as well.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Dakotahound
10/08/2019 at 17:08

Yeah. And the new FWD fans only tow like 2000 pounds.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ranwhenparked
10/08/2019 at 17:09

Reason: CVT

someassemblyrequired > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 17:10

Going out on a limb here, but maybe a Chevy Astro :P

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
10/08/2019 at 17:10

This is the conclusion I am being drawn to.

David Baker > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 17:58

SWB Ford Transit 3.5EB

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 19:01

There is nothing in your market that could replace this that I’m aware of.

In our market, it’s a struggle but a 2wd Isuzu MU- X or the 2wd Ford Everest would be closest. Both BOF and RWD and tow up to 3,500 kg (though gross combination mass is not great in either) . Neither are vans...

Matt Brown > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 19:04

I had a conversation with a friend a while ago about how you see these old things everywhere and we were wondering what they were going to get replaced by. I suggested the Chryselr T&C, but w e eventually concluded they would not be replaced, just fixed ad infinitum.

RacinBob > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 19:36

Allow me to recommend a Ch evy U plander. They are cheap and very reliable with it’s 3.9 liter pushrod engine and 4 speed transaxle . Everybody who has ridden in it has been amazed at how quiet and comfortable it is. It makes trips very comfort able. The extended wheel base Uplander (I believe all ‘07 and ‘08) has great room with the third seat removed and also gets outstanding gas mileage. I just completed a 3000 mile round trip to Florida a veraging 74 MPH at 23 mpg.

Finally, anybody who says that you can’t tow with a minivan hasn’t tried a GM minivan. I have towed my car on trailer (4000 pounds total) about 6 0,000 miles behind my Pontiac Transport and now My Uplander. I put an heavy duty hitch on it and air sp rings on it and it has been great. The only comment I would say is make sure that the one you are looking at is one with 6 lug nuts per wheel. The early ones had 5 lug nuts and came with small brakes and the 3,4 engine. I would also recommend the Uplander with it’s beam rear axle rather than some of the other variants with independent suspension for towing.

Kinja'd!!!

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
10/08/2019 at 19:48

I cannot support this more. The two most reliable cars I have owned have been 25+ years old and based on groundbreaking tech from the 70’s. Unless you plan on buying an old red block Volvo estate keep the van (unless rust is taking it, then eventually she will be dead )

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 19:49

Kinja'd!!!

It’s the only thing in the same class as an Astro that is sold today, for better or for worse. I don’t think you can get it with diesel in the U.S. which is bullshit since I’d presume that an oil-burner Benz would be a lot sturdier and more practical than the 208 hp turbo four-banger that it’s offered with, but it is (supposedly) rated to tow 5000 lb though it’s only RWD here IIRC (also bull). Still, it’s a lot more robust than a modern minivan and is, again, the only thing that exists by any metric (Metris?) in the American midsize van market.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/08/2019 at 19:50

You misspelled garbage

pip bip - choose Corrour > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 03:47

Ford Transit

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 06:52

It’s the only correct conclusion.....

Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 09:07

An LS swap is a suitable replacement. Or get an Express with the 6.0 and turbo it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 10:40

What is that van?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
10/09/2019 at 10:40

It’s the abbreviation.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
10/09/2019 at 10:43

No rust, but the paint is falling off. Sandblaster and rattle can...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal
10/09/2019 at 10:47

I’m only getting 12 mpg around town. Pickups are out of the question for me; gotta be a van.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
10/09/2019 at 10:48

It has to be a van and any sort of utility anything that won’t fit a sheet of plywood is pointless. Am I o pinionated much?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired
10/09/2019 at 10:49

They made them through ‘05, I think, but they also lengthened the wheelbase so they need a football field to make a u-turn.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > David Baker
10/09/2019 at 10:49

Will the SWB accommodate a sheet of plywood?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
10/09/2019 at 10:50

Yeah, my current van is rated to tow 5,000 pounds. I was wondering whether there were any FWD vans rated that high; doubtful.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Matt Brown
10/09/2019 at 10:51

Certainly the case with mine. The engine and trans in mine only have about half the mileage of the chassis. I’ll keep it going awhile.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RacinBob
10/09/2019 at 10:54

Is that a US market van?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW!
10/09/2019 at 11:05

I understand that an LT-1 will practically bold right in. But two more cylinders, I don’t need.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 11:05

HA! I will remember that

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 11:06

But why do that when you can pay Maaco to do it worse for more? (I’m not sure if they still exist or if your local one is actually good)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
10/09/2019 at 11:15

Yeah; that. Once I’m finished, I’m going to chase down a set of steel truck rims and caps from the 80s.

Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 11:17

Any SBC bolts right in. Are you really sure you don't need two more cylinders? What about a Grand National 3.8 turbo?

Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW! > Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW!
10/09/2019 at 11:17

Ooooo. Syclone 4.3 turbo

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 11:18

Mercedes Metris, known as Vito/V-Class overseas

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Duck Duck Grey Duck FTMFW!
10/09/2019 at 11:22

An LSX V-8 might get better mileage in some situations than the 4.3.

No turbos, TYVM.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 11:23

Metris sold stateside? I’ve never heard of it. I’ll have to look it up.

I’m a van man, though, through and through.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 11:47

I have somehow managed to haul many sheets of plywood, with my 5'8" bed, despite living in an area that has much worse weather. If you want to restrict yourself that much, that’s your business.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 12:00

I just looked that up. I’d never heard of it. If I needed a new van tomorrow, I’d go look at this model before I went to the Ford dealership, though I have to admit, I don’t like the big Mercedes symbol on the grill... But Metris or Transit...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 12:02

Blast it and bring it to me for a weekend....

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
10/09/2019 at 12:21

And I will be the first to tell you that I am a poor businessman.

I can leave materiel and tools in my van overnight in bad weather, or transport them in bad weather, with no worries. Or a washer and dryer, or half a dozen people. Pickup truck cabs are severely limiting.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
10/09/2019 at 12:23

Road trip: where do I go?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 12:31

Pretty sure you have my address....

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 12:43

You could get a long bed truck with a camper shell then.

But you won’t, we all know you’re going to be buried in that Safari ;)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
10/09/2019 at 12:48

*chuckles*

No, I’m a van man. Covered pickups are too difficult to access all of the cargo space.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 13:33

Yeah, that’s what I figured. If you’re determined to stick with a van, you’re going to have to keep your van. There simply is no replacement. The closest thing would be a Transit Connect.

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 13:54

Right, what strikes me is that the Metris is actually very European and utilitarian with little of the fluff and frou-frou that usually defines American Mercs. Everyone says it makes a terrible minivan, but they’re missing the point—this is the European equivalent of a pickup truck and it’s not supposed to be posh or family-friendly. Again, the powertrain spec is a little lacking stateside for it to be a proper workhorse, but in terms of form-factor it’s basically a modern Astro/Safari.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
10/09/2019 at 14:29

There’s just nothing as utile as a van.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 14:32

Yes. This was good info. I’d never heard of the Metris and what you say here about it being not an Americanized — read: fatassed — vehicle probably makes it perfect for my tastes. I will probably soon go and waste a salesman’s time... I am very curious.

I’m going to look at the specs; I am curious whether it has a 5,000 pound towing capacity.

RacinBob > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 14:34

Yep. And Canada too I assume.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 14:37

https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/commercial-vans/metris-worker-passenger-van#specs

Yup: that’s my van. But will it fit a sheet of plywood on the floor behind the front seats with the rear seats removed and close the backdoor? Gotta find that out. But that’s my van.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 14:47

I could actually covet one of these.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 15:07

True. A lthough having all the stuff separated from you in a truck bed is much safer, if you get in an accident.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher
10/09/2019 at 15:10

That is a very good point.

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 16:33

Hah, I’m glad I sent you down this path of discovery! I can’t in full-faith recommend it because of my lack of experience with M-B products of any kind, but I do hope that if you end up picking one up it satisfies all your needs and more; it really was the first thing that came to mind for me when you asked for a modern Astro, so I’m also glad that we see it in a similar stead.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 16:40

That van has my name written all over it. I’ll probably wring another five years out of my Safari, so by then, we’ll know if the Metris holds up at all. In the meantime, my brother-in-law just bought a Sprinter-based Winnebago and as farscythe put it, the Sprinters are good at breaking down, and I would expect nothing less.

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 18:51

Right, always good to buy late down the model-line; hey, who knows, there may even be better options for it then too!

As for Benz reliability, is that really the case ? I would be rather surprised, I’ve heard relatively good things about Sprinter reliability and, unless I’m missing something, farscythe was remarking about the reliability of the FCA/PSA Sevel Atessa vans— i.e. the Ram Promaster, Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer, and Citroen Relay quadruplets. Those are biblically awful reliability-wise, or at least in the U.S. as the Promaster ( as in cbell04's saga with his old work van ) .

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 18:53

Could be. I am suspicious of anything with a diesel engine nowadays. The one Sprinter I’ve ever driven had an instrument cluster that looked like a Christmas tree.

Amoore100 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/09/2019 at 19:03

Fair, but again, I’m not sure if I fully trust the longevity of a turbo-four van either, though I’d hope it’s been put through its paces. I’ve just seen many Bluetec Benzes clatter their way around for millions of miles in third-world countries, but I think modern emissions manages to wring out a lot of the longevity of especially smaller diesel engines with all sorts of little nuanced maintenance items.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Amoore100
10/09/2019 at 22:28

Yeah, I’d be worried about that as well, though if I were able to buy one of those, it wouldn’t be driven very hard. And when it was, I’d be gentle with it. That’s one of the reasons the Safari has held on this long.